tv Closing Bell CNBC November 18, 2014 3:00pm-5:01pm EST
thank you for dragging that out. going to friday, the all-time strongest fastest stock market rally in history. at least based on a short -- that's pretty cool. >> it is pretty cool. >> little christmas gift in the 401(k) envelope. >> early christmas gift from us to you. thank you for watching "street signs." and welcome to "the closing bell" on this tuesday as we sit at record highs once again. i'm kelly evans at the new york stock exchange. >> this is an actual rally sort of. >> oh no, it is. the dow up 70. s&p 500 especially impressive up 13 points. finally punching through the levels art cashin is watching all day. >> and that puts us in record territory. who knew? but very, very quietly. we were talking earlier today of how we have had five straight days of very, very quiet trading.
except for that stock. look at apple. a close above $114.29 would make it a $800 stock on a presplit basis from the time it went back and we are there now at 115 and change. while snow and cold is here across much of the country, maybe the santa claus rally is also here, as well. we'll be following all of that in this final hour of trading today. >> keeping an eye on gold here. coming up, vladimir putin now hoarding gold? new report says he is. why? we'll speak with will rind shortly in a first on cnbc interview. you won't want to miss this. >> do we need the look at the video of him without shirts on? >> no. viewer request. >> and as obamacarols out for year number two, the spotlight is not on the website but how the law was passed and whether or not the people intentionally deceived. the glib comments coming from
one of the law's advisers continues to gather steam. we will have the latest on all of that coming up in a little bit here. >> yes. let's get straight to it with the closing bell exchange. the dow up 70 points at record high levels. so's the s&p 500. nasdaq adding 35. frankly, outperformer of the session. up 35 points. >> let's talk about it all in the closing bell exchange today. with us, ken morafe, david cudla, peter anderson, from all the way across the country, patty edwards and our own rick santelli joining us, of course, in chicago. ken, is this the beginning of this santa claus rally? we have had very, very quiet markets so far in november. today notwithstanding. >> the best way to answer that is saying. ♪ santa claus is coming to town ♪ >> i think we'll see dow 18,000.
i saw that beginning of the year and right now you look at confidence that the consumer's showing, you look at the lower gas prices. you look at the fact that 2.5 million people have the confidence to quit their jobs right now because they think they can find a better one. these are people to shop during the christmas season. and i think that's going to bring us proverbial santa claus rally, yes. >> are you thinking of the santa claus rally? >> that's the first time i've heard singing here. >> give it a try. >> i'll be practicing. seriously, i think one of the main issues right now is a lot of headlines about merger and acquisition activity, and i think that is a very strong bullish signal. let's just explore why. you know, it's very different of leverage buyout activity we saw in '08 and earlier. in that case, people have the cash in the funds and they have to spend that money.
this time, it's a total different situation of m&an activity. they have a good sense of value. to me that's a very bullish sign that the santa class rally has legs and it will continue. probably beyond the end of this year because of the fundamentals in many of the companies look very, very attractive. >> what's that have to do with santa claus? that's a rally. >> you have to wait until christmas eve to figure that out. >> very good. >> patty, are you a soprano? i don't know. >> generally alto. generally. but i'm not going to sing here today. >> you're in the pacific northwest, about as far as you can get from wall street. what's perspective there? is there value still in the market right now? >> yeah. we think there is value. we are looking at a level of 2175 for the s&p next year. we expect that we're going to see earnings estimates. we are at about 128 next year.
that gives us about 60.5% on the price action. yeah, dividends, close to 9%. we think that by the end of the next year and we think there's certainly room to run. and if you look at the economic backdrop, it's really not a bad backdrop. we control a lot of things to drive our economy. energy, housing, and frankly, we need a little bit of capital reinvestment here and we're actually leaning toward the u.s. more than we are toward international markets at this point. >> david, what about it starting to look into 2015, reminded by patty's comments of the s&p going and others, as well. but there's still seem to be different camps of the fed. you have the minneapolis fed this morning saying interest rates aren't going anywhere. and then on the other hand even our own suze orman talking about how people need to prepare for higher credit card rates next year. which camp are you in? >> i'm in the camp that probably mid next year to the latter half
of next year we see a rise in the fed funds rate. we see that first uptick. i think we'll see rates starting to creep up next year but i don't think that's enough to impact stocks in a meaningful way. bond investors, a point where you need to look out below but as long as it's the rise in interest rates is accompanied with economic growth and we have good data points this morning and we have continued to see a string of good economic data, supports growing economy, higher rates, we'll move in lockstep with that and we'll have a strong u.s. stock market going forward for quite a while yet. >> rick, we haven't talked about the international markets. of course, a lot going on in japan and the nikkei up over 2% last night. do you follow that for a sense of our markets here? >> oh, i follow it quite closely. >> yeah. >> i think what's going on with regard to abe-nomics, snap elections, no tax increase,
rating agencies sweating about all of that is ongoing. the issues in europe despite confidence are ongoing. a feel-good survey doesn't change the underpinnings. very little changed the underpinnings of the european union. not a lot of reform and japan. i look at the treasury market. and believe me. it is locked and loaded. we have 16 straight sessions that 10-year notes close at an 8 basis point yield closing range from 230 to 238. >> wow. >> on the 30-year bond it's longer. we had corporate supply today, the main feature. smaller deals, most of the spreads from corporate spreads to mortgage spreads have dribbled a little wider. treasury market is telling me there's not a lot of economic fundamental change of now and the end of the year. chinese year end well beyond ours. this is it. if you're looking for the santa claus called the federal reserve to continue to sprinkle the
happy dust on the equity markets, i don't disagree. it could sail through the end of the year. >> do you, david, think we have -- we have been talking about japan, obviously. that's still one of the world's biggest economies. that's why it matters when's happening there. but what about china and the property price declines we're seeing? opened up the market to more investors at the different mechanisms and yet still not really helping -- >> five-year low on iron ore, kelly. >> exactly. and remember, we talked about iron ore with sam walsh on this program back in the spring and asked him what would happen if it was trading at 75. he sort of laughed it off saying that wasn't -- that wouldn't be possible and if it did it put the competitors out of business and look at the landscape. >> yeah. we have seen with the development now we have more capital and flow into the chinese stocks, into chinese companies. that's a positive. but as we look at, you know, what's happening in the
commodities and overall, you know, we're still concerned about china and how they've managed to work to a lower growth, lower gdp. you couple that with the problems in europe, the problems in japan, the issues of deflation and the reform that is are needed and both japan and in europe as they continue to try to solve the problem with just monetary easing. >> yep. >> we think that, you know, from a global story we're still concerned about china. >> patty, another traditional lynch pin for the economy is housing. i know that housing index caught your attention this morning, didn't it? >> yeah. it did. i mean, we are starting to continuing to actually see numbers creep up. people are feeling better about the housing market. we're getting if you look at -- >> should they? >> it's a good thing. you know, the big home retailers going to do well for christmas and talking about home repairs,
home improvements. people are staying in the homes longer, repairing them. we'll continue to see growth there, too. >> does the party end when the fed starts raising rates? >> not immediately, no. >> it's a party. >> the consumer has been easing back on the amount of credit they're using. the consumer has been really being more judicious with how they're spending their money. i don't think that you see this come to a screeching halt. things do get more difficult but it's not going to be a quick rise. we think that really the fed's going to be like the crocodile hunter. slowly and stealthily creeping up on the prey. >> with that in mind, might we see slower moves and thinking of the g-20 over the weekend and the comments that it's 2 trillion of additional stimulus and perhaps fiscal side to boost the economies now. do you think that ultimately here will be enough to make a difference and kind of shake us out of this disinflationary concern of late? >> i think the disinflation --
i'm sorry. go on. >> peter. >> okay. i think it definitely will help. and just -- if i could go back to china a moment. you know, a great bellweather for china is a company like las vegas sands. it's a u.s. company but a gaming company. almost all of the revenues of the peninsula and encourage you to look at that stock because that behaves in a very direct way to the chinese economy. and the chinese economy is resilient. if you look at this stock and look at the price, you can see how resilient that stock is and not concerned about china. i'm concerned more about just the global economy and i do think that japan even -- excuse me, but even though it's 1% of the gdp, psychologically that has a tremendous, that could be the one piece of coal in the stocking this christmas. >> rick, i was going to say were
you going to express a similar skepticism of the global outlook here or -- >> no. i'm just saying that, you know, we're in for a penny, in for a pound. nobody questions what happens if it doesn't get better and the global debt continues to expand even more than it has and we continue to see this type of global economic course power one or two years down the road and trillions of dollars of debt lat later. nobody seems to talk about that. i think it's something that somebody caught to kick the tires on. >> i agree with rick -- >> -- wrong of the impact of 20 years ago and always talking about this. >> last comment. >> used to be at 40,000, as well. >> yeah. >> who was going to make that last comment there? >> i agree with rick that, you know, the economy of the world is important. the u.s. economy is the train, the engine that pulls the world with us. but if the rest of the world is slowing down it makes harder for us to pull it. makes more work for us. and if the debt mounts enough,
we could have some serious problems next year. but i don't see that happening until the second half of next year. i think for now, things are looking pretty good. >> go back to the recording studio there, ken. >> thank you, everybody. >> thank you for joining us today. nobody's going to sing you're a mean one mr. grinch. >> spread them out. all the way to christmas here. we have 45 minutes to go before the end of the session today. look at the dow. moving higher. sitting here at record intraday highs. 17,735. up almost 90. s&p adding 15 points and now to 2056. >> apple at an all-time high right now, as well. apparently the best day for a deal for retail is moving target. last week we reported it's not black friday but this coming sunday. or is it? courtney reagan has results of a new study of retail prices and which day really get you the best deal. that's coming up next. also ahead, data of the
world gold council show vladimir putin's russia beefing up gold reserves big time. the question now is why. the head of the world gold council here to weigh in when we come back. opportunities aren't always obvious. sometimes they just drop in. cme group can help you navigate risks and capture opportunities. we enable you to reach global markets and drive forward with broader possibilities. cme group: how the world advances.
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♪ you're a mean one mr. grinch oh man! ready for christmas, aren't we? >> hot chocolate. >> found the grinch when the dow is up 86. a rally under way, kids. the s&p up 14. almost 15 points. both of those in record territory and 14-year high for the nasdaq. up 37 points. that's the winner today with a gain. >> and speaking of the holiday season, turns out the best day for holiday shopping deals may not be black friday, cyber monday or the sunday before black friday as we were speaking about on the show last night. >> courtney reagan has the results 0 of a new study. moving tar debt? >> very big moving target and why shoppers need to pay attention to prices. not sales.
because it may not be worth braving the crowds for black friday deals. a new study of pricing data reveals the lowest prices often are not on black friday. according to analysis of nerd wallet, a pricing data company started by a former hedge fund analyst, 25 out of 27 retailers offering a black friday price on at least one item that is the same price as it was last black friday or the same price that it's been offered at other points in the year. so a couple of examples. costco selling a flat panel tv wall mount $30 off the normal price, same discount as last year. dollar general offering buy one get one toy 75% off. same as last year and kmart saying the price for a craftsman floor jack is lowest price ever, although that was the same price between november 9th and november 15th. some retailers highlight manufacturer's suggested retail price to make the sale price more enticing but they weren't offering it for msrp price
anyway. we have a lot to talk about with the target ceo, brian cornell in the first tv interview tomorrow. live from minnesota. on the "fast money" halftime report. we have lots to talk about. >> courtney, are you going to minnesota? >> i sure am. >> bundle up. >> i've heard it's pretty cold. >> yeah. >> wow. thank you. we're looking forward to that interview. thank you. let's get more on the best strategies for the biggest discount this is yore. >> joining us is bert flickenger and sam poser. sam, i mean, let's face it. you think black friday is a decent day for a deal, right? >> i do think it's a decent day to get a deal. i just think that it becomes a fight to the bottom when, you know, i think the best retailers are the ones that key up on the best items for black friday and create a lot of excitement and don't have to give it away. >> bert, don't they in some cases create the price on the
select items and not everybody gets their hands on anyway and use them to get you through the door and spend on more other tough? >> you're correct and as our team across the america two thanksgiving nights and black fridays is oftentimes the stores run out of stocks and they have hypothermia and don't get the advertised item. so the smart shopper will wait until cyber saturday, sunday and the actual cyber monday, compare prices online versus in store and plenty of time in december to get better deals and deeper bargains. >> bert, what kind of bargains we talking about? pennies here or talking major discount in terms of percentages here? >> bill, talking major discounts. >> really? >> you will see macy's take the lead with 40% to 50% discounts and $10, $15 coupons. dillard's, jcpenney, a number of department stores do the same.
fine and fashion jewelry deeply discounted and apparel because the cost of cotton and synthetics down over 50% the last few crop years so apparel will be number one gift giving item. colder this winter and last year and help retailers' profitability and sales. >> sam, i see this as a giant game of chicken of the consumer and the retailer. both armed with their best source and in other words mobile phone or the data on customer stopping habits and react accordingly. how much of this holiday season is going to be a phenomenon of people almost like they used to shop for flights watching, watching, watching prices and moving the prices around based on what the customer's doing? >> well, i mean, i think that's the case. but i mean, remember that if they could sell this stuff at regular price or lesser of a discount they would. so i think a lot of these discounts may be great deals but on deals only end up at being at the value down there. i mean, you don't hear about
apple discounting iphones. you don't -- foot locker and nike with a jordan shoe on black friday. which will be regular price. and that will be sold out in moments. so if you have the right stuff, you don't need to give it away. and, you know, the deep, deep discounts are because that ends up being the true value of the product and while the price discount is good, i don't know how much the value is really as good as it seems. >> i'm thinking about the kitchenaid mixers and blenders. pretty expensive. people want them. last year wasn't that one of the items that triggered a price war because, look, people are willing to pay full price other times of the year but the second on sale, there's a rush of demand. >> i agree with that. unfortunately, i mean, there's very few of those type of true great values out there. most of the values are, you know, this 50 off apparel because there's no really great trend must have item in apparel and becomes a fight down to how
inexpensive you can sell it for. >> good for consumers. what about retailer themselves? >> it's tough to make money. there are a number of retailers under financial pressure. sears, jcpenney, ksmart, shopco, radioshack and resort to desperation discounting given the uncertain financial futures. toys r us might be in the group, too. going for the tko same time and as you have better bargains from struggling retailers, as well as more capable, better capitalized competitors, you have probably the best shopping environment for consumers this holiday season. particularly with lack of hit movie releases so you don't have the licensed toys and hot i'ms as sam referenced earlier. >> right. >> fascinating point and seeing the damage there is after it's all over. burt, really appreciate it. sam, as well. thank you both. >> thank you. >> she asked about the blender.
hope your mom's not watching. is this something -- >> giving it a lot of wedding gifts lately. there's a lot of people nesting. >> sure. okay. >> in that mode. whatnot. by the way, a great piece of equipment. but i digress. we're heading toward the close, about 35 minutes left in the trading session. decent gain. enough to put the dow and the s&p in record territory. pretty good gain for the nasdaq today and you can credit apple, some of that, record territory, as well. >> the senate is preparing to vote on the keystone pipeline in a couple of hours. might still face a presidential veto even if it goes through. the pros discuss the high stakes next and we want the know if you think president obama should veto the bill if it passes. you can make your voice heard. cnbc.com/vote. the live poll is open right now. . then there's trusting your vehicle maintenance to
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welcome back. we are still talking about blenders. amazing. meanwhile, the clock is winding down on this key senate vote on the controversial keystone pipeline. >> john harwood has the statest state of play in washington. john? >> reporter: the question is whether mary landrieu with 45 republicans voting yes can get the 15th democrat vote she needs to get to 60 and clear the filibuster hurdle. here's mary landrieu trying to persuade her colleagues this morning. >> just fyi to everybody that thinks this pipeline is the end of the world, we already have
2.6 million miles of pipe in america. 2.6 million. miles of pipe. we're only completing basically a thousand miles. what is everybody upset about? we've been building pipelines in this country for a long, long time. >> reporter: so here's the problem for mary landrieu. she's getting responses from those who hadn't declared like this one from tom harken. >> i've come to this one conclusion. that every dollar that we spend today on developing and using more fossil fuels is another dollar spent in digging the graves of our grandchildren. i don't want to dig that grave anymore. it's time to get off our fossil fuel habit. >> reporter: so what we now know is we're stuck at 59. unless mary landrieu can flip
someone declaring opposition, this might not pass this evening. >> thank you. stay with us for a moment. we want to bring in tom peachtree for his take on the keystone pipeline. >> we want the know your thoughts on the pipeline itself. should president obama veto the keystone bill if it passes? essentially, your view of keystone. log on to cnbc.com/vote and vote right now. tom, does it matter if the bill passes now or in the new congress where it really is expected to pass when we get there if it doesn't pass tonight? >> it probably doesn't matter a lot on the basis you have just described but it is important that it pass. and, therefore, seeing this kind of gamesmanship right at the end by the environmental opposition is disappointing. this is a strategic imperative
for the u.s. and canada to put the oil supply elasticity to good use. >> tom, it seems with the oil price environment being what it is today, only thing it is is a giant infrastructure project and hard to argue we need it in terms of oil price fundamentals right now. >> well, actually, this's not the case. i agree it looks that way but we're stressing our total system right now by shipping too much oil on trains and really this would -- the availability of this coming within the next couple of years assuming we get an approval early next year will help us with a growing availability of oil doing it in a safer manner than exists today. >> john harwood, the comment by tom harken there on environmental concerns, is that really what the opposition is about in this case? is it the environmental issue?
the president has said, he's more concerned about this oil that would go from canada down to the gulf of mexico just being shipped out. not benefiting us in the scheme of things s. the opposition more about environmental irkss? clrp yes. environmentalism and the incluns of environmentalists on the democratic party is the reason why this hasn't passed. that being said, the president isn't very strongly opposed to this pipeline at all. he doesn't believe economically or environmentally the stakes are all that large but given the fact that republicans wanted it so badly, he i believe is going to use this as leverage so that let's assume it passes in january which it will, if it doesn't pass this evening, i would expect the president to veto in deference to the administrative review he's undertaking right now but then try to bargain with republicans and see if they'll accept any of his priorities, either on the environment or other issues, the budget, many other things, and if so, then they can make a deal and let it go through.
i don't think he's committed to stopping this project absolutely. >> tom, can you give a sense of what else this pipeline would achieve? people are saying as much as it's nice to get the oil from canada, it would get oil of the of the bakin. what impact would that have? >> it's a plus. it would be available for shipping both canadian sin crude and bakin oil. in addition do that, because the president's right, that's a good part of this oil will flow into international markets, it becomes part of north america becoming more important in the global balance of oil and gas which, frankly, has implications for dealing with iran, with russia and europe. >> certainly, tom. is it possible, because we have had naysayers on this program with regard to this project saying if we pass it, it will increase the oil price and open up to global markets and move it towards the higher benchmark. is there any truth to that or
awash given oil prices lately? >> no. i think just the opposite. i think it would be a contributor on the bar gin to a looser supply globally, a good thing. >> kelly, i would just add that from the standpoint of environmentalists, a higher gas price or oil price isn't necessarily a bad thing because -- >> yeah. >> >> reporter: they want less use of fossil fuels and more use of renewables. >> look at the vote now, guys. 66%, 67% of 0 viewers who have chosen to vote have voted no, they would not see -- they don't want the president to veto this bill. i'm thinking they're voting as consumers who want to see lower gasoline prices in this case and told also this is a much higher vote count than we normally get and tremendous interest in this, tom petrie. is there a guarantee that gasoline prices would, in fact, go down if keystone passes? >> there are no guarantees. there's a lot of other factors
that affect oil prices but this one on the margin would definitely loosen up the global supply demand and that would be a good thing. >> and john harwood, there is aside from the question of oil price itself, an argue of shipping on trains through populated areas, tests on the oil right now to see if, in fact, it is less or more volatile than other kinds of oil and thus more likely to have these explosive incidents. from a pure safety point of view, isn't there a case for a distribution situation for this anyway? >> reporter: the environment environmentalists are making the case of dangers in addition to the affect on the carbon footprint and what is required to extract that oil from the tar sands, there is the discussion about the danger of shipping oil but, again, the reviews that we have done so far that we have seen so far by the -- through the state department process did
not indicate an inord nainate r. you don't have a big, strong, flashing red light saying don't go ahead with this. >> before we let you go, john, would you explain why this is sort of a vote on mary landrieu's chances for re-election come january, as well? >> reporter: well, some people are calling it that, bill, because she faces a runoff on december 6th in louisiana. she is way behind her republican opponent bill cassidy sponsoring the keystone bill in the house that passed last week. i don't believe the outcome of the vote makes a difference at all in her runoff campaign but some people see it as a way to help her give her a talking point, give her something to brag about if she could get this passed. of course, if she can't get it passed, the argument act her influence in washington takes a big hit. >> tom, does it make a difference to you whether this bill passes, quickly? >> i'd rather see it pass now
rather than later but it doesn't make a big difference. one other thing i want to say is the other benefit of having this pipeline available within the time frame it takes to build it is we begin to rebalance the use of our rail for other commodities. right now shipping wheat, shipping fertilizer and automobiles is all constrained because of the crowd-out for shipping oil. that's a drag on the economic growth in the united states that's being ignored if we don't move ahead. >> all right. yeah. that's a problem we like to have. not enough supply for the demand. >> if the viewers were the senate, it would pass easily. 66% said, no, the president should not veto. >> reporter: bill, if our viewers were the senate, a lot of things would be different. >> that's for sure. thank you both. tom, good to see you. >> thank you, guys. less than half an hour to go and
markets off its highs here. the dow up 66 having a nice session with the s&p up about 13 and the nasdaq 35. all right. a big mystery when we come back, why is russian president vladimir putin stockpiling gold like there's no tomorrow? and why we keep showing the video of him without a shirt on. we have the head of the gold council talking putin, gold, supplies and a lot more still ahead. and also, coming up, forget about silicone valley or alley. the fastest growth for hot, new start-ups is taking place in the middle east. and it's millennial-aged women leading the charge. our kate rogers has a special report coming up. sheila! you see this ball control? you see this right? it's 80% confidence and 64% knee brace.
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>> so why is putin hoarding all this gold now and how much of a concern should it be? joining us is william rind, ceo of world gold trust services and bob pisani. >> we have two gold bars. which make me very nervous. >> bill is going to bench press lately. >> trying to pick it up? weigh how much? >> a lot. >> 35 pounds. >> oh my god. >> go ahead. >> oh my god. i almost fell out of the chair. >> 35 pounds each. gold at 25 pounds feels heavier. >> oh my -- okay. >> roughly together the two of them -- >> only 25 pounds? >> yeah. >> no. >> feels heavier. doesn't it? >> i can't pick it up. >> more than 25 pounds. >> why is vladimir putin hoarding this stuff do you think? >> russia's been the biggest accumulator in terms of central banks of gold over the last few years and they have a lot of petro dollar income from selling oil and foreign exchange
reserves, looking to diversify and gold is a beneficiary of that. >> investing in oil and investing in gold. in russia. not a great bargain right now. >> buying, though -- >> relatively low. compared to what they have been in the past, sfrigt. >> how long can you use gold to prop up the currency ultimately? >> i don't know that's what they're doing but diversity reserves largely in dollars of selling oil on the open market. we say -- we talk about russia but, of course, the big elephant in the room is china. but we don't know how large their accumulation has been of gold because it's the state secret so of the banks that publish figures, we know that russia is the largest, most active in the central bank market and that's been a big driving force in terms of demand for gold. >> they want the swiss bank now to have gold to hold gold aez a significant portion of its supplies and moves elsewhere to make foreign banks own gold. >> will, do you see this move back to a sort of defacto gold
standard in the countries and if so why? >> i don't think it's moving to a defacto gold standard. it is about diversification. many ways they view it as not too dissimilar of anybody to own gold in that if you have a portfolio that's overweight u.s. dollars or it could be euros or any other number of asset classes, there's diversification and lack of correlation to equities, bonds, asset classes. they're doing it for a similar reason. >> what do you think about the price of gold at this point? i mean, we're all watching the resurgence of the dollar in the last six months and there's no sign that it's going to taper off any time soon. that cannot be good for gold prices down the road, can it? >> i think the dollar in some respects less of a story of u.s. dollar strength and more of a story of foreign currency weakness. and what's happened is there you have been largely deflationary pressures as countries around
the world that don't have the kind of growth that we're seeing here or exporting deflation. and that's having a stronger effect on the dollar. if you look at the gold market fundamentals we think it's metal returning to deficit. we saw last year a big amount of supply come on to the market largely fueled by the etfs. that cleared the lower price largely bought by asian consumers. >> and indian. >> yeah. on the back of what was a strongest demand, year of demand on record for gold. this year, we believe that we're still going to have a very strong year in terms of demand and probably come in the second highest on record in terms of demand so we're in a good fundamental position. >> the tenth anniversary of the etf, right? >> yeah. >> you were there ten years ago. >> i an introduced it. there was a lots of skepticism of the way to own gold. etf structure. people felt it wasn't the right
way to do it. would fall apart. people skeptical. >> are you holding that 25-pound bar there? >> that's it. >> no way you're holding 25 pounds here. we couldn't pick it up right now. >> october 18, 2004. the world gold council wanted to be there. >> gold was worth a lot less then than it is now. >> yeah. the height was $1,900 i believe. september of 2011. >> that's right. >> today $1,200 and less -- i think $500 billion under management in the gld by 2011. now i think 280 -- >> come down quite a bit. >> 27 billion, the height. >> i'm sorry. 50 billion i mean. >> yeah. under management. >> they're waiting for you to ring the bell, as well. you can leave this behind you. >> how much is one of these worth? >> about half a million each. a million for the two. >> there you are.
that's why there's very large gentlemen waiting over there to pick it up when he's stepping off the podium. thank you. thank you, bob. see you later. >> 15 minutes to go here. markets off the highs. there's sell pressure on the close and up 12 on the s&p. kate rogers with a special report on where entrepreneurs hit is booming. may not be where you think but what's amazing is who they are and where the jobs are coming from. wait until you hear coming back. uhhh. no, that can't happen. that's the thing, you don't know how long it has to last. everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive.. confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor can get the real answers you need. well, knowing gives you confidence. start building your confident retirement today.
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welcome back. where is entrepreneurship booming? silicon valley. silicon alley comes to mind. >> none of them tops the list for fastest growing. kate rogers now with the big reveal. where's the big boom happening and who's leading the charge? >> bill, if you want the know who's leading the grassroots start-up movement it's women an millennials and where it's happening that might be the most surprising. the global entrepreneurship index measuring activity in 130 countries looks at start-up potential, attitudes of entrepreneurs and number of companies created. now, the countries leading the
way for activity, no surprise. the u.s. in the top spot. followed by canada and australia. but it's the regions with the most growth year over year more surprising here. the middle east and north africa despite the political turmoil and the fastest growing country year over year is iran and especially surprising given the unemployment rate and youth unemployment at 24%. now, attitudes towards entrepreneurship are shifting with people realizing becoming your own boss is a viable option. the index found activity in all 130 countries studied. back to you. >> wow. amazing, especially about iran. kate, thank you very much. with ten minutes to go here and sell pressure on the close, bill. >> art cashin came by. $1 billion to sell. going into the close here. worth of stocks. we'll see pressure apparently coming into the market here. mary thompson rounding up the day's movers.
interesting day. mary thompson is tracking the movers of the session for us. mary? >> hey there, kelly. let's begin with the movers. actavis soaring on the news of bill ackman supporting the deal with allergan. ap wl a pre-split price of over $800 a share. it split in june and trading at $115.54. united, continental, delta and southwest gaining ground. or air. gilead sciences rising after getting approval to market the latest hepatitis c and stock up. and we end up with the potash miners on the rise after a russian producer largest in the world suspended work of a mine and evacuated workers.
they're all traded to the upside. back to you. >> all right. thank you. later than it's ever been and coming back with the closing countdown. >> and then after the bell, it is the sound bite now sweeping the nation and causing plenty of angst at the white house. >> called stupidity of the american voter or whatever but basically that was really, really critical to getting it to pass. >> the fallout on the remarks of jonathan gruber and why government itself could be the biggest loser after the bell.
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last two and a half minutes here heading to the close. show you the various major averages today. dow and s&p record territory. at this point, and the nasdaq done pretty well today. apple stellar performer there at $115 putting it back above the level it was at before the close. the gld, celebrating the tenth anniversary of the goad etf here at the new york stock exchange and up 1% now. no. this is comex gold. would you buy gold at these levels? do you like gold? we have a bunch of gold bugs standing around celebrating. >> for many of the clients it is making sense as an allocation and given low inflation and
usually it's a hedge -- >> there it is. >> there's no reason to really -- to think extra hard about adding it to the allocation. >> especially if the dollar is going higher, right? some when would buy it in other currencies. like yen or something like that. that's -- >> that's complicated for the average investor. >> what do you like here? >> health care. i like technology. i like consumer discretionary, bill. automotive sector. under consumer discretionary umbrella. fixed income. >> unconstrained bond? >> bond managers, portfolio manager that is go anywhere, across the fixed income spectrum and i also like munis and continued to with the tax exempt income benefits. >> they have enjoyed. we don't hear much about defaults anymore in that category, do we? >> very little. historically you won't see a lot of that. for tax exempt income in a
rising tax environment, very important asset class. good to see you, bill. >> thank you for being here. well off the highs. had billion sells to and art cashin said it took us off the highs and good enough for all-time highs of the dow and s&p. stay tuned. more coming your way right now with hour number two of "the closing bell" with kelly evans and company. see you tomorrow. thank you, bill. welcome to "the closing bell," everybody. i'm kelly evans. another day and looks like another record session on the market. still enough to put in record territory, just shy of the 17, 700 mark. meanwhile, ten points for the s&p and setting a new high water mark at 2,052. the nasdaq a strong session up 31 points to 4702. won't be long before people talk
about records in that one, too. let's bring in the panel, larry kudlow is here. along with our very own kate kelly and kevin o'leary with the fast money trader tim seymour. tim, first of all, we have had so little actual volatility in the markets and so many record setting headlines here. >> implied volatility down to 2007 levels even after october so think about the m & an activity and the cash on the sidelines and the seasonals. europe was really what drove it. germany and the zoo index to be up for the first time in 11 months. chinese home prices, less bad. so you have a backdrop to give people confidence in a fed meeting tomorrow and people don't expect them to do anything. that's an environment for stocks to go higher. >> guys agree? >> profits, profits, profits, mother's himming of stocks. tim is on the right side of the trade and i hope he stays there.
>> bring it on, larry. >> third quarter beating profits in the fourth quarter going to be pretty good industrial production number. manufacturing. producer prices 1.5%. look. this is not a fabulous economy. but it is a good enough profitable economy to keep the stock market going. >> buying gold? we just had -- >> no, no, no. >> totally contrary what he was just talking about. that's a tail risk investment. >> why would i? >> you wouldn't. >> dollar going up. oil and gold going down. i don't want commodities. maybe a house if i can get a good price on it. >> larry, gld guys ringing the bell. throw them a bone. >> no. >> you can say russia and switzerland. central banks are buying where the investors no longer are. >> money managers say 5% of the assets in something like this. >> i'm cool with that. that's good. just saying at this point in the cycle, the fed is through with the easy, easy, easy. and now going to become
gradually less easy. that plus the economy. you want to be in stocks. stocks, stocks, stocks. you want to have 5% gold? i'm cool with that. it could go to $1,000. >> first of all, the mergers of yesterday tells us there's life in the m&a market and may see activity particularly in energy. >> good point. >> with prices under fire. we are at the $75 marker where some analysts think that e&p has to slow down. that's one thing. another thing is, you know, we still have the benefit of being the best house on a bad block thinking about europe and japan and the crisis they're in both economically. i talked to a -- >> that's a 20-year story. >> tim? >> i think -- >> people may be -- we have a time of very extreme positioning, though, too. everybody's long the dollar. everybody thinks europe is going down. the risk is actually that europe's going to outperform the u.s. in year end. >> really? >> relative to where we were in june of 2012 when people thought
the euro would implode, better relative price to value, better eps levels and outperformed, excuse me, underperformed by 22% this year. >> actually -- >> that's the trade into year end relative to the u.s. >> well, i actually have some agreement with tim on this. >> again? >> now i'm more worried. >> stocks, right? not fixed income. >> go for the northern european countries and the united kingdom. low tax rates and the central bank did a good job but i wouldn't go nuts on that trade. okay? >> the positioning here. that's what you have to be careful of. >> there's no reason -- >> kevin? >> there's no reason to believe that earnings better than $120 come year end. we had fantastic third quarter and thought 4.5%. we got 8%. everything from here on in in gains is price earnings expang and the risk there is the higher the pe goes, call it fairly valued now, but if we end up sort of in the 17.5 to 20 pe by
year end you have volatility risk in the market. >> a hat tip to my friend who said the vix doesn't tell you about the fact that single stocks in his words are going bananas. correlation as we talked about on this show is almost back down to zero. in other words, it's a great and almost also a more dangerous environment for trading individual names than these levels would otherwise. >> if i give you $125 a share for 2015 -- >> i said -- >> i know you said -- >> not much growth, larry. >> understand. i understand. that's about a 16 times earnings, more or less. >> 16.8. >> that's about a 6% forward earnings yield. no. it is not cheap. i agree with that. we're not looking for 30% gains. i agree with that. but i would still want to be part of the march higher. >> larry, my only concern is sucking the air out of next year. by moving this market north
another 3%, rally coming, year end buy-in, we are sucking the air out of next year. >> i'm hearing more of the same. a hedge fund manager today said we'll drift higher and then rip. that was the word. right after the thanksgiving holidays. >> up or down? >> rip up. yeah. >> one other thought that's very important. this is from yellen. and this is from bill dudley. they are going to nudge up rates. all right? it's a guessing game. >> when? >> hang on. >> closer to march or september? >> my myself think it's around the middle of the year. >> question. >> when they do, you're going to get selloffs. you are going to get selloffs. it is inevitable. that's a bull market in my opinion. you can get 5%, 6%, 7% selloff. >> opportunistic? >> yes. >> if we can put up an intraday chart of home depot, there was what looked like a fat finger
trade of some sort in the close. a big move. apparently in error. what was otherwise a pretty good earnings report, strong data this morning, national association of homebuilders. >> we'll talk about this on "fast money." what's the trade of lowe's? looking at home depot, very good news priced in. very good quarter. and it's a stock that's also been a darrelling to this point. so at some point this is a multiple you have to be a little cautious of and relative value play is in and playing that sector and consumer wealth effect is still going to work. >> you know what's great? you want volatility? i don't know if this is going to matter or not. right now in washington, d.c. with the president maybe going to use an executive order for immigration reform -- >> keystone vote looming. >> mary landrieu will lose anyway. when's so great about this, no one, no one and i have spoken to
many in the leadership -- >> government shutdown? >> no. but no one knows what's going to happen before the thanksgiving recess and into december. >> will anything happen? >> they don't know. we don't know. >> well -- >> did you read -- >> mcconnell is going to drink. i am told. jack daniels. did bourbon summit. okay? i asked about wild turkey. >> i thought headquartered in -- >> jack daniel's. >> i don't know about that. >> no one knows. >> did you see david brooks and obama dug the heels in and positive inscrutable? he didn't know arrogance or a calculated approach? >> we'll talk about that next. >> astonishing coming from a centrist. >> by the way, let's just -- >> hadn't had a drink in 20 years. >> larry, i'm making up for you. i'm making up for you. >> so are a lot of other people, as well. one of the biggest gainers in the market still seeing some increases are the double digit gains in the so-called vice
stocks. morgan, what can you tell us? >> kelly, if you need to get a drink through all of those holiday parties, then you're in the alone. that's why booze stocks tend to pop in the holiday season. relative to the overall consumer staple sector alcohol makers have on average outperformed each of the past three decembers. so take boston beer company. that's the maker of sam adams. december gain on average, nearly 9%. another brewer for you, moulson coors with coors lite, gained almost 6%. constellation brands owning corona posted about 2% gains for the month. so there's a note of the sector expensive right now and remains positive on the brewers. but there's another vice stock within the staples to take a look at that doesn't do as well and that is tobacco. companies like phillip morris
international, reynolds american, tend to decline in december and that's a selloff that typically extends in january on new year's resolutions so for investors indulging this season, maybe on your show today talking about all that bourbon, grab a drink. not a smoke. kelly, back to you. >> some good advice there. thank you. tim, you buying the names here? what are you buying? >> for a lot of different reasons, some of them structural. if you have the whole emerging market consumer, the aspirational element of fine liquors and spirits, this is working well. diaggio i'm long. this makes for a buying opportunity stock on the upswing. altria. diversification. people are missing the u.s. tobacco market. we know the market's declining. they own a big piece. i love this trade. emerging market trade. >> can i just say, on the
tobacco companies, really, tim, very important. >> i'm listening. >> i'm told they're absolutely ready for the nationalization of pot. okay? just a couple of states now. >> who's they? >> they have the marketing ready. they have the distribution ready an they're going to be out of the gate. the more pot spreads, the cigarette companies. >> why won't they be in the middle of the market, larry? look at e-cigarettes. you wanted to be long loralard. to assume they have the distribution and infrastructure not in the trade, i don't know. >> they're ready. i'm telling you. ready for the pot. you will have the marlboro man -- >> you sound excited. >> he is a wuss. marlboro man is a wuss. >> no name calling, pot or otherwise. tim, we'll let you go get ready for "fast money" and coming with the inside scoop on sunedison's acquisition from the ceo and president himself.
some claim that the american public was deceived to get the law passed. our next guest says it may have destroyed what little trust americans had in our government. he does see an opportunity, though, to try to fix this problem. that's straight ahead. we want to know whether you think deception is used to pass obamacare. weigh in right now. cnbc.com/vote and talk about seed money. a new reality show trying to match entrepreneurs with investors. if you think it sounds like "shark tank" you're right but it's centered on marijuana. you're watching cnbc, first in business worldwide.
welcome back. we begin here with our mary thompson with an earnings alert. >> two stocks. first of aulg, vip shop, china's online discount retailer, better than expected third quarter results and after hours trade you can see its shares moving higher in heavy volume. l la-z-boy, it's up about 4% in light trading after hours. back the you.
>> all right. mary, thank you. now, it's year two of obamacare but the american people aren't focused on the website so much this year. instead, they're focusing on if there's deception and how the law passed to begin with. by now you have heard jonathan gruber's name. a high-level consultant for the white house and various comments like these surfaced and continue to cause a firestorm. >> lack of transparency is a huge political advantage and basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the american voter or whatever but basically that was really, really critical did getting it to pass. very clever, you know, basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the american voter. you will see, america's too stupid to understand the difference. >> so before we begin, we want to know what you think. go to cnbc.com/vote tell us, do you think deception was used to pass obamacare. we'll bring in two guests. welcome to you both.
nick, great to have you here. you wrote a piece that resonated. you can read it on the daily beast and said that the trust whatever the public had is shattered. is that too strong? >> since 1965, when gallup started to track trust in government, we are less than half as high as we were in 1965. when you look at things like the snowden revelations, the pile of lies of the bush administration and then gruber-gate, on of the top it of, this is shaky to begin with. this is a last prop of anybody to believe in government. pew research finds 2% of american people trust the government to just about always do the right thing. that's not good. >> there's a line in the piece that jumped out saying that the lack of trust doesn't seem angry and resigned to the fact that the rulers think little of us. you use rulers in that sentence,
as well. >> yeah. well, this is, you know, it is coming after a, you know, decades long assault on the american voters, the basic intelligence of the american voters and, you know, what makes it worse with obama is not just any president. he was mr. transparency. he is the guy with the secret kill list. he's the guy hiring people like gruber. >> josh, your thoughts, sir? >> not just government that faith declined in. you can look at gallup polling results over the decades and confidence in all kinds of institutions is through the floor. government or congress, they also don't have confidence in big business, banks, media. and so i think what's happened is over the last six years we've had this terrible economic performance, mismanagement by all sorts of institutions and seeing a reaction to that. i don't think it's about gruber-gate or the other -- house republicans over the last couple of years. it's not about specific lies. it's about a general sense that things aren't working the way they're supposed to be working. >> definitely about a general pattern and specifically about
government. gallup also asks and been asking this since 1965, what do you think is the biggest threat to the future of the government, big government, big business or big labor? big government at the highest level ever, off the charts and not saying there's not bad stuff going on in other paurts and generally a hollowing out of authority in all parts of american life. authority comes to the individual but government is the main problem here. >> i think if you look at the exit polls, very interesting. 74%, government does too much to solve problems. 74%. and that's about a dozen percentage points higher than the last midterm election. regarding obamacare, though, the interesting thing to me, look. i'm not sure gruber told us anything we don't except his arrogan arrogance. >> is that an arrogant thing to say? >> of course it is. pointy head bureaucrat thing. i got to give gruber credit. not only help design obamacare, he helped design romneycare and
very important pointy headed bureaucrat. the issue is what the republicans will actually do with it. the wind is at their back. >> wait a minute. >> let me finish my point. they have a villain to go after. gruber. they don't have a plan. okay? i think until they have their own alternative plan, they still are traveling uphill. >> kate? >> larry -- >> there's a reason. >> hang on. >> i want to ask a simple question. how much was really intentional deception versus they didn't know what they were doing in the first place, the unintended consequences, i live under romneycare in massachusetts and obamacare now and only seen one outcome. my costs for health care have gone up every single quarter. so whatever i was promised never materialized. how much is just a simple screw-up versus what they really as you suggested -- >> hang on, josh nick? >> one of the things that's interesting of health care or large transformative pieces of
legislation, there's a certain amount of it incompetence, even with the best intentions. but i think what's important is that the american people have stopped, you know, it isn't the libertarian belief of government being incompetent and why the gruber comments made, the way they're phrased and articulated is that now they're saying, no, the government actually dislikes the people it is ruling and it has scorn for them. >> clearly tin eared. it's unfortunate, tin eared and same time here's a guy who looks like a popular mit professor. spouting off with swaeger. your favorite professor was probably like that. >> i have a phd. i have gone to a lot of college and professors. none of them acted like arrogant jerks like that. to be quite honest. >> josh, as well? >> yeah. i think, you know, larry identifies no republican plan and a general discontent with government and when you talk about having the government specifically do less it's lot less pop already and the way they ran against obamacare over
the last several years is complaining about cutting medicare. talking about specific government interventions, people like them and not want them disrupted and why republicans have been so confident running against the president and so much less confident running on their own agenda. >> i think what you're going to see, josh, i'm just speck latting, but from my own context, they are by the way going to vote for repeal. there is going to be a repeal vote. that vote will fail. okay? what will then happen is try to kill it with a thousand cuts. try to go after the specific issues regarding the individual mandate, regarding the employer mandate. >> there's a supreme court decision out there. >> the medical device tax. >> will they replace it? you're right. you asked what are the republicans going to do with this? they're going to blow it just as bad and the bush administration for six years when it controlled all branches of government and then two years later, terrible. lied about iraq.
it lied about bush's stimulus plan in 2008. it was wrong or incompetent on just about everything. they won't say what we need is an actual free market in health care. >> bottom line is for heaven's sake take the mandates off. give us free market choice in health care. you nailed it. let them cross state line. >> help people that need help. >> isn't that the only way to coerce people into making it affordable for people that need it the most and instead of -- >> by the way, i mean, this notion of the stupidity -- >> there's plan to do this. but the piece in the front of "the new york times" very important piece. robert pair finally figured thut the insurance companies are -- >> in their best -- >> in bed with obamacare. of course they're in bed! more plans, bailouts so they keep their premiums down. they're getting medicaid. insurance companies are part of all the cronyism and corporate
welfare in washington that has to be stopped. >> best thing republicans can do and help you in massachusetts allow you to sell insurance across state lines and lower or get rid of the min yum guarantees. >> we live under a law passed now so all of these wonderful utopian ideas aren't going to happen. >> well, they can do reforms. they're not going to do repeal i think. >> and asking our voters 83% are saying that deception was used in their opinion to pass obamacare. almost record setting votes, people weighing in at home to share their views on. we have to leave it there, gentlemen. thank you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. a top uber executive mad at the critics and suggest digging up dirlt on journalists. a relative new company not knowing how to deal with criticism or something sinister? chicago bears star jeffrey the latest nfl player to go
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for a one hundred fifty dollar amazon.com gift card when you open an account, call 1-888-980-5745 today. optionsxpress by charles schwab. (receptionist) gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money? time and money. awesome. awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! (all) awesome! i love logistics. welcome back. let's send it back to mary thompson for another earnings alert. mary? >> jack in the box posted better than expected earnings after the bell. fourth quarter results beat estimates by a penny.
same store sales by 3.1%. also better than expectations in the stock as you can see currently trading up almost 2%. back to you. >> thank you, mary. keeping an eye on it. most business executives brush off criticism from the media and a senior executive at uber wants to spend over a million dollars to dig up dirt on reporters. josh lipton following the story. josh? >> reporter: kelly, it's being called uber-gate and the senior vice president of business in a conversation he thought was off the record floated the idea of team of researchers to smear members of the press who attacked the ride sharing company. michael said that the researchers look into the personal lives and families of journalists according to a buzzfeed report. and michael seemed focused on sarah lacy, the editor of pando daily accused uber of sexism and the ceo taking to twitter
calling the comments terrible and for his part michael himself also publicly apologizing to lacy saying his comments were wrong and he regrets them. so what will happen to michael now? well, judging by the tweets, not much. jeffrey sonen feld says that's a mistake saying that at a minimum michael should be on suspension and undertake an internal investigation and how transparent with the media. drama at a critical time for uber. tech site said uber is raising money to value them at more than $25 billion. back the you. >> yeah. that's effectively the market cap of the big auto makers. thank you. let's get reaction and jessica, editor in chief of the information. i can't wait to hear what you think about these comments.
welcome. >> thanks, kelly. >> so, these were -- it was a private dinner. i understand that. wasn't speakly necessarily in a public forum like a ted talk or something. nevertheless, does this reveal to you that he was sincere about going after journalists? >> to me it shows how petty and personal the relationship of reporters and companies have become and the huge levels of distrust. i mean, these issues aren't about individuals. it's not about emil or sarah. and to see this erupt into this sort of mudslinging around, it just feels like pollty ticks and wrong and i frankly have been surprised by it. >> jessica, it's kate kelly. good to see you. >> hi, kate. >> i found it not surprising but dismaying. it is a new low in terms of discourse you're describing for sure. but there does seem to be a breakdown of respect and decorum around some of the issues and social media, so easy to distribute reports without
necessarily putting the proper time and thought into them is certainly a contributor to that. but at the same time, we have seen company that is are putting out personal dossiers on journalists and a column of "the new york times" a month or two ago ian a team psychoanalyzed a reporter to say she seems emotional and has issues and in addition to where she was from, the preferences and detection of bias in the published work. >> absolutely. i mean, everyone thinks everything is fair game, the media in terms of the companies and the companies in terms of the media. and i think it speaks to a lack of distrust and professionalism. and i think some of that will happen. it's natural with so much more information available through social media. >> jessica, let's take the other side of the coin here. this happened in the waverly inn here in new york city. a very good wine list in that restaurant. i go there all the time. >> owned at least partly by greg and carter. >> and tons of attention from this.
>> i know what happened. a couple of good bottles, a conversation. >> don't we call booze truth serum? >> the end of the day, at the end of the day, do you think that he might have put forward that this was off the record in tonality and it's unfair to just -- >> i don't think it matters. on the record, off the record. look, buzzfeed, a reporter there, the remarks were said and i think the remarks show this bigger issue and i think it's beyond the point, you know, the details of it. >> jessica, this is a sick story. let's label it what it is. this is a sick story. this is a story that's even worse than washington where, by the way, an old saying that is even paranoids have real enemies. all right? these uber people are what pa a paranoid. what bothers me is general manager of uber new york city accessed the profile of a buzzfeed news reporter, johanna, to make points in the course of
a conversation of policy. no point in the exchanges did she give him permission to do so. this suggests and buzzfeed has pretty good reporters. uber already been doing this. >> research on buzzfeed, right? >> that's a great point. i think that's very troubling. i think we should be asking this question of all internet companies that collect -- >> anybody on this panel going to stop using uber because of this, yes or no? >> i might because of the price premium but that's another issue entirely. >> my point is i think -- look. >> and they have used a lot of bad press to their advantage, time and again. >> he should be at minimum put on probation. >> why? >> it is a disgusting thing to do and say and sets a bad precedent by the company to tolerate. not fired. >> a little flexibility, particularly a great bordeaux involved. >> i don't know. i don't know. >> you and the bordeaux. >> thank you. >> it's forgotten about this by monday. >> i don't know. part of me hopes not. but then again, we an el see. jessica, from the information,
much appreciated this afternoon. currency manager in an investigation. ousted by goldman sachs. we have the details straight ahead. call it shark tank for the world of pot. new online reality show trying to match the called pot reprenurls with investors. wait until you hear the details. for access to one of the top wealth management firms in the country... for a team of financial professionals who provide customized solutions... for all of your wealth management and retirement goals, discover how pnc wealth management can help you achieve. visit pnc.com/wealthsolutions to find out more.
welcome back. goldman sachs ousting a trader in a manipulation probe. what happened here? >> so, kelly, frank ka hill in the london office of gold mn's office apparently came forward and identified himself as someone anonymously sort of pointed out in regulatory reports last week as engaging in these chat room discussions of currency prices and so on. this is, of course, part of a broader multi-pronged currency manipulation probe initiated by the financial conduct authority in the uk and joined by u.s. regulators and the justice department still investigating a bunch of banks and not goldman specifically. it is the first time that goldman is ensnared in this and probably worth noting that the activity in question came from hsbc, a prior jb. >> sure. >> it shows that we're probably going to continue to see ripple
effects of the ongoing probe. >> a quick question on this. >> yes. >> great reporter that you are, i worked on wall street many years. today, last five, ten years but today, do the wall street firms ever do anything anymore to help their customers? >> well, that's a great question. >> seriously. >> they're really being attacked in every division, be it fixed incomes. >> that's right. >> commodities. i'm going to cover the commodity hearings this week. making markets and sort of intermediating and making value judgments on where to buy and hold, it seems to be problematic. >> we have to go. >> let me speak on behalf of shareholders. i own shares. why is it that as a shareholder who have done nothing wrong other than to own the share, pay out billions in fines and go after the individuals you're reporting about? throw them in jail for being bad people. why is the firm getting penalized? i'm getting really unhappy. >> they're targeting individuals in this case. i hear you. >> not me. >> the public outcry is to see
some people -- individuals. >> shareholders. me! me! >> from the justice department to the states attorney's general. >> there's a point. >> going after the corporations with -- >> why? why? >> instead of individuals. >> judge has a great piece on this issue in new york review books of this year. people can read it in the commercial break. >> it's all political. >> it's hard. is the short answer. legalized marijuana is a big business in colorado and washington state. and now a new reality show is trying to cash in. pitching products to investors. will it catch on? unless pot is made legal by the federal government. that's next. receiver alshon jeffery the latest nfl to be traded like a stock. would kevin o'leary invest in the performance of an athlete? we'll ask him right here. you're driving along,
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you know the show "shark tank." huge hit with entrepreneurs pitch their products to investors. now there's a show of one big difference. jane? >> kelly, how big is pot? high time it has its own "shark tank" show. >> if the bud looks like this, smells like this and smell it in this part of your face, you know it will affect you in this way. >> what is it? >> the whole -- this is just the meat and potatoes. it is not all here. >> the marijuana show. connects start-up people with investors and financing in this
industry through banks is pretty much impossible. though judges had to separate the weed from the chaff. >> 200 people show up. to the audition. you guys, in two weeks. it is like, whoa! 200 of them with business plans in hand. >> okay. >> yeah. >> craziest idea of all? >> this chick with like this rainbow hair and she's like, i got like this really great idea. i want my weed to be colored, you know, like my hair. >> finalists of bio track thc with a bar code system and $5 million to expand. also mom tony wolf $200,000 to ramp up production of a child proof pot carrier. >> anything to lock up in a bag or i can make it. i'll make you a new bag. >> the marijuana show is online only. no network. no sponsors. though producers say investors in the winning start-ups are
willing to put in up to $1 million. >> i wonder where they get the money and what the panelist vs to say about this. kevin, imitation is a sincerest form of flattery? >> i knew it was coming and couldn't get sponsorship because no advertisers on it and this is the essence of a problem with situation we have. i have looked at three deals now that i would have definitely invested in including a hydroponics scheme and i loved it until i talked to my lawyer and said if i landed in texas or florida and it was highly publicized i was owning this and shareholder in it, i could be subject to a federal mandate to throw me in jail. >> there's a moral hazard, larry. if everybody's doing it, is everybody protected because they won't go after individual people? >> kevin makes a very important point. state and federal law. >> big problem.
>> generically what i gather tobacco companies are ready. if it's national, federal. therefore, legal. they're ready to rock n roll. me, kelly, i'll say the unpopular thing. i'm a pro-market guy and totally against the legalization of pot. i think you will get a lot of brain dead stoners around this country. i'm almost 20 years sober. i thank god for that and any professional, any professional in the chemical dependency business will tell you it's a gate opener. >> kelly? >> do you think we're in -- jane, your perspective, as well. a lot of people feel this way. is it a given this is going to be legalized, especially on the federal level? >> i think there is an inevitability this is rolling out that way and governor jerry brown with same concerns of larry going to denver and see a lot of people smoking a lot of pot, do you want that in your town? well, as it's more widespread, is that different? to kevin's point, investing in a bar code system to track seed to
bank and other industries or investing in a child proof package that allows you to carry medications with you, you are far removed from the marijuana. this may be a legitimate business outside of pot. >> kate? >> i want to say larry made an important point. i don't have a lot of patience for all these pot stories. i feel like people find it titillating and fun to talk about it and it's a gateway drug and way too narrow for a show and i'm going the leave it at that. >> let's propose this question. if you could have invest in the alcohol business at the end of prohibition, do you have any idea what an irr that was for anybody that went into it? became legal. >> i guess depends, though, on how important a role ethics play in the investing strategy. >> jane? >> there's a huge divide in the east coast of the country and the west coast of the country. there's a completely different mindset out here from what you guys have over there. i'm telling you. a different -- not saying we're right. >> must be. >> but it's different. >> to kevin, you were absolutely
right about the rate of return on alcohol came in. but again, you talk to any professional in the chemical dependency world, and they will tell you that alcohol is just as bad as any drug including heroin. that's what they'll tell you. >> larry -- >> i'm not here to -- >> only reason i'm not investing -- only reason i'm not investing in pot, particularly hydroponics is the federal government tells me it's illegal. when they change their mind, i'm in there. >> i understand. >> jane, thank you. >> i get that. i just disagree. >> east, west coast divide persists. much more on the show tomorrow and the head of the private equity firm launching apparently a bob marley brand of marijuana products. it is backed by the marley family. by the way, brendan kennedy, don't miss it. coming up, nfl star alshon jeffery could be on the track of
a monster contract and so could you. are they smart investments? that's next. tomorrow, when the fed start raising interest rates now that it expected the stimulus? famed fed critic jim grant with a new book out joins me now tomorrow on "the closing bell." ♪ there's confidence... then there's trusting your vehicle maintenance to ford service confidence. our expertise, technology, and high quality parts means your peace of mind. it's no wonder last year we sold over three million tires. and during the big tire event, get up to $140 in mail-in rebates on four select tires. ♪ ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you have enough money to live life on your terms? i sure hope so.
welcome bap. talk about real life fantasy sports. fantex brokerage services allows you to invest in stocks that track the value of a professional athlete. yesterday marked the start of their fourth ipo. this one for alshon jeffery. take a look at the first three to go public. vernon davis, bills quarterback e.j. manuel both seen their stock drop due to injuries and mohammed sanu. his stock rising significantly. we were just checking the site. what should we expect from the newest ipo? how many have been investing in these athletes? joining me is the ceo buck french. >> thank you for having me. >> you go to fantex.com and pull up explore the stocks. we can pull up sanu trading at
1370. >> his ipo closed october 30th, 3 1st. he's so far having a great season so we're pretty excited about that and importantly as the transaction closed, the securities traded up about 1370 as of today. >> walk me through it from the athlete's point of view. i'm tom brady, i wish i was -- >> you're the finance equivalent. >> you approach my agent with an offer. >> we meet with several people, the agent, financial adviser, a lot of times marketing adviser, other people could be wise, fathers, mothers, their core team as well as the athlete. it's kind of a mutual we want to make sure they're of character that we want to work with and have the type of brand potential that we think can last into the future, and then importantly they want to make sure they're being fairly compensated from a valuation standpoint. >> how does that work? i'm back on brady. what are you offering me? >> straight discounted cash flow
analysis. we forecast out how much longer you have to play and based on that we forecast what your future contracts look like and then we dcf it to present value. anywhere from 12% to 16%. >> you have this buffalo bills quarterback e.j. manuel. he was benched so his stock is going down and it's a dangerous sport, so how do you compensate for those risks? >> one, being benched doesn't necessarily mean you won't play again. his current contract is guaranteed. he's in his second year of a four-year contract with a fifth year team option. so his cash flow for the next several years is going to be what it's going to be. certainly impacts his near-term offfield opportunities but at the end of the day we acquired that for a weighted average discount rate of 13.4%. when you look at a triple c junk bond at 8.5 to 9, we think we're fairly compensated.
>> you have a huge risk/reward. that's an apt point. not only do injuries occur but i was reading in "the new york times" this horrible story about spouse abuse in the nfl. but one fact was a lot of these players only play for three years on average. so you're trying to probably be billy beane and say who is the most promising new addition to a team who is going to have an upward trajectory that's really terrific but at the same time they may flay oume out. >> the reality is the biggest misperception is that 3 1/2 years of playing in the nfl and that's absolutely true if you account for every individual that walks on whether drafted or undrafted. the reality is if you make the 53-man team of a roster, your average career is about six years. if you're a pro bowl player like alshon jeffery, your after length is 11.7 years. it is absolutely in the numbers, and we do deep quantitative -- >> back to brady for a second. >> last thing. >> can i get a piece of the manager. can i own a piece of your
company. do i get a taste? can i wet my beak? >> by the way -- >> but we can talk after the show. >> is there a way to short the new york giants? and i love them. >> i'm a giants fan. >> we have to go. but i see the possibilities. start talking about derivatives. thank you for being here. fantex is the name of it. thank you so much. it's another day, another record close for the markets. up next, the panel's final look at what they're watching as we try for yet another high tomorrow. ♪
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to find out more. welcome back. time for final thoughts. what are we watching? do we circle back to markets. fed minutes? kevin o'leary. >> i was fascinated this week. i met with investors i respect in boston. they were managing large amounts of capital. when asked what they were going to do with their cash, they are putting it in the s.p.y. just to throw it into the index anticipating 1% to 3% returns just in the next six weeks. i find that mentality fascinating. >> do you think -- do you follow that mentality? >> i followed them in because they believe in pe expansion toward the year end and then as larry talked earlier, if he says
125 next year, we just sucked all the earnings back into this year and next year is going to be miserable and volatile. >> larry? >> they will be discounting forward. i will not go there but the economy, it ain't too hot, but it ain't too cold, and compared to japan and compared to europe, look, our numbers are fine. look at the markets. the yield curve is positive. the inflation break evens are low. to me as long as profits stay up, profits, profits, profits, i'm a buyer. >> kate? >> i'm going to d.c. for the permanent subcommittee on investigations which is taking a look at banks and their commodity holding. interesting testimony coming from the fed from -- >> please stop stealing my money. i'm a shareholder, you're stealing my money. >> i can geek out on that topic. i'm looking forward to it. >> can we have a nonph.d. on the federal reserve? can i get a farmer on the federal reserve board?
can i get -- >> you have to go to the cftc. >> someone who works with his hands instead of some dope from m.i.t. making fun of everybody? >> thank you everybody for being here. "fast money" is coming up in just a few moments with melissa lee and the ph.d. gang. >> thanks. i will take it. "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market site in new york city's times square, i'm melissa lee. your traders are tim seymour, dan nathan, steve grasso, and guy adami. guess what? "fast money" is moving. we're moving, we'll give you a sneak peek of our new home. that's coming up. plus solar stocks pop on the heels of an acquisition of sun edis edison. first, to our top story. tech stocks hitting new highs. the nasdaq at levels it hasn't seen in 14 1/2 years with just 29 trading days left in the year. which tech names do you buy and hold into 2015? guy adami? >> i think qualcomm. we talked about it ak